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Re: [ARSCLIST] help in fair pricing of reel to reel machines
I gave up. For larger purchases (f'rinstance, two Studer A820s last year...
yes there's a reason why I asked about transports!) I had a company go crate
them up and get 'em freight-forwarded. It cost a pretty penny but was very
much worth it. Not every item justifies the expense, but shipping is such a
crap-shoot these days that if it's rare/any kind of valuable not doing so is
From: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
[mailto:ARSCLIST@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of phillip holmes
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] help in fair pricing of reel to reel machines
Oh yeah, that pisses me off beyond measure, when they just say "you
didn't pack it correctly". I sent a very nice Sansui TU-9900 AM/FM
tuner to Canada. The front panel, machined from a solid block of
aluminum was nearly ripped off the front of the tuner (and pulled
forward). That requires effort to accomplish. It had 8-10" of bubble
wrap, peanuts and shredded paper around the unit and the front was
nearly ripped off. Well, after it had been through Canadian customs
(morons) and to the customer in Montreal, half the packing was gone.
That's when they take a picture, send it to me and say I didn't pack it
correctly. Well, even if it wasn't packed correctly, I don't see how
someone nearly rips a 1/2" thick piece of aluminum off the front of that
thing. To add insult, the broken glass shards gouged out deep scratches
all over the front of the thing. Well, after that, I started to double
box and take obscene measures to make sure the stuff got there.
Tom Fine wrote:
> Hi Phillip:
> We've discussed this topic at length on the Ampex list. The conclusion
> is, pack like it will have to pass through a rebel army and it MIGHT
> get there OK. Insure to full market value and then some. Take pix of
> your packaging so they can't claim you mis-packed it. Sometimes,
> things work out perfectly, other times not so much. It's the nature of
> the beast.
> -- Tom Fine
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "phillip holmes"
> To: <ARSCLIST@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] help in fair pricing of reel to reel machines
>> This guy only live 40 miles from me. The reason I asked about
>> shipping is if I sell one, I'd like for it to get there in one piece.
>> Richard L. Hess wrote:
>>> Hello, Bruce,
>>> Of course, condition drives price...and with these machines it's
>>> more than just head condition.
>>> I sold four Otari MTR-10/12s (including two 4-channel 1/2" ones) for
>>> an APR-5003v and $500 and was happy they were gone (sorry, Bruce,
>>> but we all have our pet machines).
>>> Speaking of pet machines, mine are the Sony APR-5000 and the Studer
>>> A810 -- I'm sure that I would love a Studer A820 but, for me, being
>>> able to have a deep stock of otherwise unobtanium parts is more
>>> important than the small increase in enjoyment (and probably not
>>> sound quality) offered by the A820 (others will disagree, I'm sure).
>>> For pristine APR-5003v's, I've paid up to $500 plus shipping. But
>>> they better be working and pristine. Things to look for, are these
>>> APR5001 (mono) APR4002 (stereo) APR5003 (timecode) APR5003v
>>> (timecode plus)?
>>> Take one of the large idlers apart (it should just unscrew). Is
>>> there a cup and a 1/2" roller? If not, it's a very old machine and I
>>> would probably pay $100-200 at the most depending on head
>>> configuration. Steel instead of ceramic tape lifters would also put
>>> it into this category. I'd pay little for a mono machine (they were
>>> at least listed in the catalog) but the good news is you can
>>> probably convert it to stereo and it MIGHT have seen less transport
>>> wear. The best deals are the APR-5003 or especially the APR-5003v
>>> that saw life sitting in a video post room that was there 'cause you
>>> had to have one but it never saw any real use.
>>> There are three NAB head blocks, two with brass-coloured Woelke R/P
>>> heads, one of those has four heads and is off the 5003-series as it
>>> does centre-track timecode. The third type uses Applied Magnetics
>>> wideface heads which approach the Studer heads in low frequency bump
>>> performance. Beware of wear and previous relappings, however.
>>> The Studer A807 is widely used in archives, but while it is improved
>>> over the A810 in some areas, it doesn't offer the alignment
>>> flexibility of the A810 and I think the A810's symmetric transport
>>> may be equal to or superior to the A807's, but the DC motors in the
>>> A807 may be a bit gentler and the shuttle control is a real plus. I
>>> use an A807 with CBC stereo monitor bridge for tape prep (with a
>>> 4-track Nortronics head and switching that lets me assign the four
>>> channels to either of the two electronics channels. These go for
>>> $500 and up in good condition, especially if they record (there are
>>> a lot of PB only A807s out there). My best A807 and my two best
>>> A810s came from the TV studio scenario described above.
>>> Later MCIs (-C version?) use the same Woelke heads as the APRs so
>>> that might be a reason to get it, but otherwise with the other
>>> machines available, I can't see a reason to take one and maintain it.
>>> The Ampexes are workhorses and Tom Fine told you the truth about the
>>> tube electronics on the 350/351, but it may also be a transistorized
>>> AG-350. The transistorized machines don't sell for all that much
>>> (generally well under $500 and often in the $200 range). If I were
>>> not well endowed with spares for the complex APR and A810 and A807
>>> machines that I had, and I were interested in machines that can be
>>> repaired forever using common tools and techniques, the Ampexes
>>> would be my first choice. These are generally not constant tension
>>> devices and have been reported to produce in some instances speed
>>> variations between start and end of a reel, although others contest
>>> this fact.
>>> The electronic alignment of the APR and the A807 (although the
>>> latter is more limited) is very nice IMHO. All the others have
>>> screwdriver tweaks.
>>> How far away from you does this guy live? How far away from me
>>> <smile> (I never say no to more pristine APR-5003 or APR-5003v
>>> machines)? Send me digipix off list and I'll comment more.