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Re: BOOK_ARTS-L Digest - 19 May 1997 to 20 May 1997



Davey board substitutes  I have went to the salvation army and bought
hardback books for 10 cents each and took off the covers and bound them into
a book



>There are 15 messages totalling 483 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>
>  1. Artists' Books
>  2. paper search
>  3. New Catalogue Available
>  4. Binding Suggestions? (2)
>  5. Readin', wRitin', and Radio
>  6. Davey Board/Substitutes (3)
>  7. Before...fire/Tyvek
>  8. leather crayons?
>  9. Readin', wRitin', and Radio (yak)
> 10. dynamite page
> 11. Dolphin papers phone number
> 12. Information about an old print
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date:    Tue, 20 May 1997 00:41:09 -0400
>From:    Linda Eveland <ZeePD2Da@xxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: Artists' Books
>
>Barbara Harman wrote (5-18)  suggesting an exchange of slides/ideas in a
>critique group.
>
>I would be very interested in this.
>
>I also do embellished and paste papers.  And would be interested also in
>swaps of
>unusual paper for book covers.
>
>Linda Eveland
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Tue, 20 May 1997 00:39:59 -0400
>From:    Berwyn Hung <BerwynH@xxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: paper search
>
>In regards to your search for Fabriano Ingres, have you tried Dolphin Papers?
>They are located in Indianapolis, Indiana - 1-800-346-2770. They will send
>you a price list and their prices are great. They ship quickly and you
>usually get your paper in a few days. They also sell swatch books of their
>paper. I find them extremely useful.
>Tell them Berwyn Hung sent you. I order a lot of paper from them so they may
>be able to get the papers you want even if they are not in stock.
>Another thing, they mix and match paper types, so I usually get together with
>friends and put in a mass order so we can usually get incredible discounts.
>Fabriano Ingres Lightweight is 90lb. and would go for .89 cents a sheet in a
>typical order by my friends and I. Also, if you spend over $500 shipping and
>handling is free. I have never paid for S+H.
>
>Good luck,
>Berwyn
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Tue, 20 May 1997 08:15:00 +0100
>From:    William Laywood <knipton@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: New Catalogue Available
>
>FOREST BOOKS-
>
>CATALOGUE 83.
>
>Latest catalogue of books for sale now available. This includes
>Bibliography, Bookbinding, Book Catalogues, Book Collecting, Book Trade,
>Books about Books, Palaeography, Paper, Printing, Reference Works,
>Typography &c.
>
>Available free on request from:-
>
>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>William Laywood
>Forest Books
>Knipton,
>Grantham,
>Lincs. NG32 1RF.
>England.
>
>Tel: 01476-870224
>Fax: 01476-870198
>e-mail: knipton@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>Specializing in Bibliography & Books about Books
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Tue, 20 May 1997 07:47:13 -0500
>From:    Cathy Atwood <catwood@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: Binding Suggestions?
>
>>>This sounds similar to Richard Horton's Archival Mat Leaf Album.
>>
>
>>It seems to me that the same tab arrangement
>>you describe could be used in the accordion as well and since the accordion
>>is expandable there would be no problem at the spine. Of course, only one
>>side of the pages could be used (as distinguished from use for externally
>>applied inserts, printing, or writing where both sides can be used.)
>
>
>At least two Japanese formats work well with photos and other items added to
>the pages--the side stitched binding and the accordian fold format.  As Sam
>pointed out, other formats almost require that extra padding be done at the
>spine.
>
>However, I have seen accordian fold books which have illustrations and text
>on both sides. So depending on the construction and materials, particularly
>in regard to the fold, the accordian format can be a great choice.
>
>
>Cathy Atwood
>Local Records Program, Missouri Secretary of State
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Tue, 20 May 1997 10:28:59 -0400
>From:    Nicholas Yeager <artifex@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Readin', wRitin', and Radio
>
>This post appeared yesterday on SHARP's list. I received Gordon Thomasson's
>permission to post to B_A-L.
>Nicholas
>>MIME-version: 1.0
>>Date:         Mon, 19 May 1997 20:13:31 -0500
>>Reply-To: "SHARP-L Society for the History of Authorship,
>>              Reading & Publishing" <SHARP-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Sender: "SHARP-L Society for the History of Authorship,
>>              Reading & Publishing" <SHARP-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>From: "Gordon C. Thomasson" <THOMASSON_G@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>Subject:      Book/Library history
>>To: SHARP-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>What with classes being ended, I was on the road and listening to the radio
>>at an unaccustomed time and happened across Sally Plaxon (sp?) and her MLA
>>sponsored "What's the Word?" on (U.S.) National Public Radio.  Today's
>>broadcast (5/19/1997) was on "The Preservation of Books and the Public
>>Library" and it was both a delight and quite depressing.  Everyone from Ray
>>Bradbury on weighed in with quite interesting comments.  But the combined
>>cancers of acid paper and slashed budgets were more than a little
>>discouraging.
>>
>>My own reaction to the program, having used text-crunching software in my
>>research since the mid-1980s, concerns those who see substituting digitized
>>texts for not just the works that are self-destructing, but for books in
>>general.
>>
>>        If you claim books can be replaced by electronic or digitized texts,
>>        how many serious works of scholarship/research great literature or
>>        historical importance  have you EVER read entirely from a terminal?
>>        If you (or some $-"saving" techno-vendor, administrator, or
>>        "consultant") can honestly answer even one, how often would you
>>        want to repeat that experience?
>>
>>Mention was made on the broadcast of the San Francisco Public Library
>>"weeding" 200,000 volumes from their collection into a landfill because
>>(among other things) the new main library had less space for books than
>>the structure it replaced.  Isn't it time we more vocally challenge those
>>claim future libraries only need to be "on-line"?
>>
>>Gordon C. Thomasson
>>World History Faculty
>>THOMASSON_G@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>
>Nicholas G. Yeager  Artifex Librorum  51 Warren St. #2  New York, NY 10007
>212.346.9609 email:artifex@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Tue, 20 May 1997 08:14:13 -0800
>From:    Daniel Warren <warrend@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Davey Board/Substitutes
>
>Hi Guys,
>
>I'm trying to repair (oh no, that word!) a few books which are not works of
>art or anything which needs absolutely archival materials.  I've been
>trying to find Davey board for the covers but have only been able to find
>it in the Gaylord catalog.  The problem is the cost!  I can't believe all
>the libraries out there are putting on covers that cost more than the books
>themselves.  So my question is, does anyone know of a reasonably priced
>source for board stock?
>
>Regarding substitutes, I've found that photo mat material is just slightly
>too flimsy, and experiments in laminating up thinner materials ended up
>with too much warpage.  One day walking thru walmart I saw in the arts and
>crafts section a selection of artist's canvas (a board covered with fabric
>and gesso) for very low prices (a buck for an 8x10, and larger sizes are
>available).  This canvas cut well and takes fabric and paper very well,
>it's just that it tends to be just too thick for a book smaller than, well,
>8x10 or so.  But it looked ok on a 3 inch thick binding of magazines I put
>together.  Does anyone know of any better substitutes?
>
>Hope this doesn't offend any purists out there,
>
>Dan.
>
>Dan Warren
>warrend@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Tue, 20 May 1997 11:55:52 -0400
>From:    Hedi Kyle <hkyle@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: Before...fire/Tyvek
>
>        What a mess...WARNING !!! Don't sent Tyvek through a Hewlett
>        Packard laser printer. Meltdown... Repeat... Meltdown.
>        Fortunately the back of this printer opens and I was able to
>        clean the GLOBS off the extremely hot roller back there.
>        For those of you who have had success with this process,
>        are you using a sepcific type of Tyvek? If not, then what type of
>        printer are you using EXACTLY...
>        We have experimented with both the laser printer and xerox machine
>        putting all types of papers through. We even put paper backed
>        book cloth through out printer with good results.
>        As far as mylar, only use the type specifically for copiers and
>        printers, as they are made for these heat producing machines.
>        I must say, this has been quite an interesting and coaxing
>        discussion. Sometimes all you need is for someone else to say
>        "hey, I've done that"
>        Denise
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Tue, 20 May 1997 11:47:31 -0400
>From:    Susan Carter <scarter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: leather crayons?
>
>I've just been reading Laura Young's "Bookbinding and Conservation by Hand".
>She mentions "leather crayons" for touching up scuffs.  I'm sure someone on
>this wonderfully knowledgeable list has some insights, ideas, warnings,
>sources.
>
>By the way, I would say this book is a must have for those not afraid of
>information overload.
>
>Thanks,
>Su
>_
>Su Carter
>Williamsburg, VA, USA
>scarter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Tue, 20 May 1997 13:41:39 -0230
>From:    tara bryan <aae355@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: Davey Board/Substitutes
>
>Daniel Warren wrote:
>>
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> I'm trying to repair (oh no, that word!) a few books which are not works of
>> art or anything which needs absolutely archival materials.  I've been
>> trying to find Davey board for the covers but have only been able to find
>> it in the Gaylord catalog.  The problem is the cost!  I can't believe all
>> the libraries out there are putting on covers that cost more than the books
>> themselves.  So my question is, does anyone know of a reasonably priced
>> source for board stock?
>>
>> Regarding substitutes, I've found that photo mat material is just slightly
>> too flimsy, and experiments in laminating up thinner materials ended up
>> with too much warpage.  One day walking thru walmart I saw in the arts and
>> crafts section a selection of artist's canvas (a board covered with fabric
>> and gesso) for very low prices (a buck for an 8x10, and larger sizes are
>> available).  This canvas cut well and takes fabric and paper very well,
>> it's just that it tends to be just too thick for a book smaller than, well,
>> 8x10 or so.  But it looked ok on a 3 inch thick binding of magazines I put
>> together.  Does anyone know of any better substitutes?
>>
>> Hope this doesn't offend any purists out there,
>>
>> Dan.
>>
>> Dan Warren
>> warrend@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, I have used Museum Board for small things,
but it's expensive and
>it tends to warp.  Sources for Davey Board:  Talas, 568 Broadway, NY NY
>10012, 212-219-0770, Fax 212-219-0735.  There MUST be some source in CA.
> InThe Book Arts Directory there's a listing for Colophon Book Arts
>Supply in Olympia, WA, 3046 Hogum Bay RD.NE, 98516, 360-459-2940, Fax
>360-459-2945, but I've had no dealings with them since I'm in the North
>Atlantic.  Good Luck, Tara.
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Tue, 20 May 1997 13:49:46 -0400
>From:    "Christopher T. Ray" <CROCUSDES@xxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: Readin', wRitin', and Radio (yak)
>
>In a message dated 97-05-20 11:54:08 EDT, artifex@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Nicholas
>Yeager) writes:
><< My own reaction to the program, having used text-crunching software in my
> >research since the mid-1980s, concerns those who see substituting digitized
> >texts for not just the works that are self-destructing, but for books in
> >general. >>
>
>I don't know if the digital intent is so much one of substitution as it is
>for preservation.  So much material that is important to archive may not
>survive the material assault it receives from envrionmental damage whether
>it's because of a poor choice of materials or from other influences,
>including book burning.  Archiving works now in a digital format is one way
>of assuring the continuance of our accumulated knowledge and experience some
>time into the future.
>
>Technology will certainly be advancing at a rapid rate, however digital
>information is still going to be an easy way to move information from one
>digital format to another whether it's magnetic, optical or otherwise.  It
>seems to me that this is an optimum way to efficiently store what is no
>longer wanted or deemed necessary, but may never be completely obsolete.  I
>doubt if those of us who are interested in preserving the integrity of the
>written word can possibly wield enough influence to change the minds of those
>who see the bottom line as a prime motivation to justify what they are doing.
> The alternative is something, at least.
>
>The most imminent threat to the continuation of a kind of written culture
>that we enjoy is the vanishing independence of conscientious publishers.
> Absorbtion into huge financial conglomerates has drastically changed the
>nature of publishing now, and only material that can be fiscally justified
>seems to dominate this field right at the moment.  That leaves us with a
>dilemma.  Publish or perish is not only the rallying cry of academics, but
>others as well whose works may have substance but not......well, the pizazz
>that sells, I guess.
>
>>If you claim books can be replaced by electronic or digitized texts,
>>        how many serious works of scholarship/research great literature or
>>        historical importance  have you EVER read entirely from a terminal?
>
>For some, perhaps the most viable alternative for the time being is
>electronic publishing.  You have no argument about the discomfort of reading
>text from a terminal and this is certainly no substitute for replacing books.
> Reading a microfich isn't any fun either.  However, it may be simply a
>matter of survival to explore the potential of electronic publishing and find
>ways to use this medium successfully.
>
>For some writers of esoteric material there may no longer be a venue for
>publishing their works so other viable options should be openly explored, not
>denied.  Let's keep one thing in mind here, the most significant thing about
>any book is content, not the covers or the paper it's printed on.  That has
>to do with the aesthetic experience and it's no small matter, but not the
>most important criteria, if we are concerned about the continuance of
>literature or research.  If the concern is about the continuance of the book
>arts, well it seems that there is no shortage of interest these days to do
>just that.
>
>We are perhaps talking about two different subjects here, one concerns the
>wealth of knowlege and the ability to continue to freely convey and
>distribute this material.  The other is about the art of making books or the
>appreciation of fine bindery which is a different matter altogether.  With an
>increasing awareness of the book arts I wonder if the health of this
>particular format might not be in better shape today than at mid century.  I
>could be wrong about this, I don't know.
>
>PS: If this post is too long for the normal things that are sent up here, I
>wouldn't mind if you let me know, I understand.  On another list we usually
>use the bracketed (YAK) indicator in the subject heading to alert those not
>interested in extended posts, so they may delete the material rather than
>ploughing though what is not of interest.
>
>Chris Ray
>
>http://members.aol.com/crocusdes
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Tue, 20 May 1997 14:50:10 -0400
>From:    Barbara Harman <ArtSurvive@xxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: Binding Suggestions?
>
>In a message dated 05/20/97 9:29:33 AM, Cathy Atwood wrote:
>
><<However, I have seen accordian fold books which have illustrations and text
>on both sides.>>
>
> A design I frequently use is a page folded into three equal parts, producing
>a folded edge at both spine and foredge. The interior section acts as a
>"carrier" for imagery, text or both, with windows cut in the enclosing
>sections to expose text or images (like a sandwich with holes cut out of the
>bread). The page can be folded so that the single open edge appears either at
>the foredge or at the spine.  I usually attach the pages to an accordion
>spine, which is itself sewn over tapes. The accordion can be expanded to
>accommodate the additional bulk of the pages. This gives protection and
>framing to the enclosures at the same time the pages themselves can open out
>fully for access to the enclosed materials. (Wish I could draw this for you
>all--hope it makes sense).
>
>Barbara
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Tue, 20 May 1997 12:25:34 -0700
>From:    pat baldwin <patbooks@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: dynamite page
>
>Chris Ray:
>
>Just saw your web page. Terrific sculpture!
>
>Y'all.. check out Chris's page:
>http://members.aol.com/crocusdes
>
>Pat
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Tue, 20 May 1997 12:06:53 -0800
>From:    Joyce Jenkins <joycej@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: Dolphin papers phone number
>
>Two people posted messages about Dolphin papers.  I just called them and
>discovered that one of the 800 numbers listed was wrong.  The one to use
>is 800-346-2770.
>
>Joyce
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Tue, 20 May 1997 16:16:30 -0400
>From:    CLARA KEYES <c.keyes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: Davey Board/Substitutes
>
>BookMakers carries Davey board in smaller quantities than is available
>from Gaylord. Five sheets is the minimum order, but the 28" X 42" sheets
>cost from $2.90 for the .059 thickness, to $4.80 for the .120 thickness.
>That's cheaper than $1 for an 8" x 10" substitute!
>
>BookMakers phone is (301) 459-3384, or write to them at 6001 66th Avenue,
>Suite 101, Riverdale, MD  20737.
>
>Clara Keyes
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Tue, 20 May 1997 16:47:41 -0400
>From:    "Judith B. Kerman" <kerman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Information about an old print
>
>I just picked up (in a garage sale) an old print by George Grosz,
>"Manhattan".  It's such a good print that I really thought it might be an
>original watercolor - it appears under magnification to be printed from
>multiple plates with individual colors (like dark red, purple or teal
>blue) rather than the usual contemporary photolitho dots of red, blue,
>yellow and black.  I don't know how old it is - the margin includes both a
>title/author (below the picture) and a printed copyright statement above
>it, but no date.  However the seller said it belonged to his uncle, and it
>is slightly faded, so I suppose it's got some years behind it.
>
>Problem: When I took the frame apart, I discovered that in addition to the
>non-archival mat (yellowed) and a sheet of very acid corrugated cardboard
>(!!!) backing, the poor thing is evidently drymounted to a thin sheet of
>either cardboard or chipboard - greyish, at any rate, and certainly not
>acid-free.  Can anyone suggest any possible way to either remove that
>cardboard or deacidify it adequately, or should I consider it a lost cause
>and enjoy my slowly-deteriorating find?  Also, does a print of this type
>have any monetary value?
>
>Thanks for your information.
>
>                     _________
>|\        /|       /________/(
>|? \    / ?|      (________(/(___
>|??? \/ ???|    /_(________(/__/(
>|   Judy   |   (______________(/(
>|  Kerman  |   (Mayapple Press(/(
>| Saginaw, |   (______________(/
> \ ? MI ? /
>   \ ?? /       http://www.cris.com/~Jkerman
>     \/
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of BOOK_ARTS-L Digest - 19 May 1997 to 20 May 1997
>******************************************************
>
>
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