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Re: IMPORTANT LIST CHANGES, PLEASE READ
- To: BOOK_ARTS-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
- Subject: Re: IMPORTANT LIST CHANGES, PLEASE READ
- From: "Peter D. Verheyen" <email@example.com>
- Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 09:06:47 -0500
- Message-Id: <199911061405.GAA22016@palimpsest.Stanford.EDU>
- Sender: "Book_Arts-L: READ THE FAQ at http://www.philobiblon.com" <BOOK_ARTS-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
I'm going to take a few moments to respond to this.
Part of my reason for taking this route was an increasing frustration with
the way things were going on the list and some subscribers were reacting.
I agree that the delete key is a great friend and should be used liberally
in most listservs, regardless of topic. As list owner I get a much higher
volume of messages. I get the original postings, I get a copy of each
message as it bounces from each address, I get the mail off-list from
subscribers complaining about stupid messages they are receiving,
complaints about others not knowing how to use email, complaints and
virulent flames about other users... This makes my volume about 5 higher
than everyone elses on a GOOD day. In the end it's going to make it easier
for me to manage the list, and still keep the good discussions we have
going. This is something I've thought about ever since I started the list 5
years ago. One of my biggest frustrations is that on a book related list
(book = carrier of information be it textual or visual) so many don't read
the instructions no matter what I do to help them find it, and then expect
me to do it for them. I have no problem helping those who legitimately need
it because their addresses changed on them, but everyone got themselves on.
If they can do that , they can post, issue commands... It's far easier than
making a book, even conceptually.
>I believe you have taken this route out of anger about the last bit of
>inappropriate action on the listserv. <snip>However, think about what
>probably has happened. Many people encountered difficulties
>downloading. (I didn't...I didn't get it...another issue entirely).
>They responded. The listserv posted them. Some people read their email
>every few days, not every day. Some probably didn't read all of the
>messages in the list before they responded. Now, I have a delete button
>on my computer and I know how to use it. I just downloaded 78 messages
>after not getting my email for two days. I read the first few messages,
>saw the flow, and deleted all of the rest. Perhaps there was important
>information embedded in those messages. I don't care. They were dumb
>to put important stuff in a reply.
So, let's see what have I censored. There's a whole stack of message from
subscribers trying to reset options or discovering that they never
unsubscribed and started getting them again (they were set to nomail
instead). There have also been a slew of commands sent to the list which
should have gone to listserv. Folks, PLEASE read the FAQ to see where to
send things. That's why I put a footer in at the bottom over every message
with the URL in it.
If I "censored" every message I disagree with, the volume on this list
would be low. The fact is I don't agree with everything that goes out over
the list. The reality is I'm not going to censor something I don't agree
with. I may reply to it, but that's it. I will "edit:"
-- Blank replies (nothing added, a message resent)
-- "me too" replies (there are a lot of bright creative people on this list
explain what you agree with, but please don't just send a "me too" and then
copy the remainder of the previous message, or even a whole thread)
-- Personal messages which should not go to the list, though I will ask if
this was meant to go to the list.
-- Spam (non-related, get rich quick stuff)
-- Flames (If you don't agree with something someone said reply in a civil
fashion. If you can't do that, don't reply. )
-- Attachments (Not going to try to do anything about those Netscape mail
-- Commands sent to the list by mistake
-- Political messages (this is a book arts list)
-- Unsubstantiated virus messages which cause needless panic
>What I do care about is censorship. I am firmly in control of my delete
>key. I know when and how to use it. I don't need you to do it for me.
>If you are annoyed about the threads, say so and then use your delete
>key. But now you will have to read and approve of all of the mail, and
>I am uncomfortable with that. What if I discuss something related to
>book arts you don't agree with? It means I am not heard by others who
>might be interested. I know you probably won't be guilty of that, but
>it is a slippery slope to start down, believe me. If you are serious
>about this and only intend to delete attachments, I will stay on the
>list (even though I wish there was more on the ART side, and the BOOK AS
>ART side and less on the mundane). If you are censoring regular mail,
>even threads that are not technically 'book arts', I am off in a New
I've gotten some very supportive mail in regards to this change, and some
concerns such as the message I'm responding to. This has been a great list,
I want to keep it that way. I also want a life outside the list. I will not
let this list go the way of some others and head towards entropy (utter
chaos). As listowner, I have to find a balance between list maintenance
doing other things, like my binding work, and spending time with the
family. I believe that in the end, this change will be for the better. If
you can't live with that, I apologize, but ...
Thank you Mary Jeanne Linford, for expressing your concerns.
Philobiblon: Book arts different by design
Peter D. Verheyen
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