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Re: FW: Archival: Inkjet versus Laser



I have to differ slightly with David re Epson printer archival qualities.
Older Epson printers are fully as capable of making archival prints as the
newer models, and in some ways better and more versatile. The thing to keep
in mind is that it is an ink and paper combination that lasts or doesn't
last. Available inks and the paper feed capabilities of particular printers
determine what is possible in terms of producing lasting prints from any
hardware.

Epson recently announced a longlasting ink & paper set, probably in
response to growing demand for such a product from photographers. A demand,
by the way, that is  already being addressed by third party suppliers. I
assume that Epson's announcement is the basis for David's statement.  The
new Epson printers have a further disability due efforts on Epson's part to
make the refilling of cartridges more difficult through reengineering.

The beauty of Epson printers for book making rests on several features:
versatile paper handling, reasonably priced large format capability, and
the availability of a wide variety of economical inks from different
sources. The premier inkjet for limited edition book printing in my opinion
is the Epson Stylus 3000. This is a very serious piece of equipment that is
commonly available for around$800-900 factory reconditioned and with a full
warranty. It's capable of taking paper sheets 17 inches wide and up to 44
inches long as well as rolls up to 17 inches wide. Having been in
production for a computer biz eon (four years or more), it is pretty much
of a printer technology classic.

Inkjet printers in general have several advantages over lasers for book
making. With inkjets the ink is sprayed on from a slight distance above the
paper, rather than squeezed between rollers at high temperatures as in a
laser printer. As a result you can successfully feed an inkjet thick or
textured paper (just what we frequently want for books) that would stop a
laser printer dead in its tracks. Inkjets are also more versatile in terms
of sheet size and finish.

Epson inkjets use a kind of ink delivery technology (commonly referred to
as piezo) that happens to be more flexible in terms of allowing individual
experimentation and third party solutions, than say HP. I don't mean this
to disparage HP printers. It's just that Epson happens to have come out
with a product that is more easily adapted by people with unusual
requirements.

At this point there are probably a dozen different inksets with different
qualities available for Epson printers. They are potentially more
economical because there are bulk ink solutions (hand refilling and add-on
continous feed systems) that allow for dramatically lower price per page.

Archivality
Specific inkjet paper and ink combinations are continually being tested for
their archival qualities, whereas I'm not aware of anything similar being
done with color laser technologies. This testing is mostly at the impetus
of professional photographers and reproduction art print makers, who have
from the point of book people a bit of a butterfly sense of what
long-lasting actually means. They are pretty happy with brilliant color
that will last 40 to 70 years, whereas we would probably go for something a
little duller to begin with that might still be there in 2-300. At any
rate, ink sets for inkjet printers are continually being developed and
refined. There are currently some ink /paper combinations that are expected
to last without noticeable fading for up to a hundred years. It's a little
hard to be too confident about anything that can't be proven till long
after we are all dead, but reasonable conservatism in these matters seems
likely to yield a fairly long-lived result.

Sorry to go on so long  on this topic, but the combination not posting very
often and a real enthusiasm about the topic, got the better of me this time

Alan Hayes



>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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>Of the generally available commercial products, only the very newest Epson
>printers are archival.  Their latest is now said to be archival to several
>hundred years. The 1270 is said to be good for about 70 years. The others,
>including the any Epson printer introduced before their recent technology
>change s  , don't even come close: more like 1-2 years before significant
>fading. I wouldn't use any of the regular inkjets for anything other than
>proofing and short-lived documents.
>
>There are third party inkjet ink sellers that are more reasonably archival,
>but usually you must purge your system of OEM inks and use only their very
>expensive inks from that point forward .
>
>Toner, the stuff of laser printers, is basically carbon and iron which is
>fused to the paper. Very good longevity. I don't have any personal
>experience with color lasers, so I can't address their archival
>capabilities. My company manufactures them, however, so I'll ask the people
>who know.
>
>Just in case you're curious-this isn't an ad since I don't think anyone on
>this list is in the market for our stuff ;  and I'm a systems engineer, not
>a sales rep- Oce is the world leader in high speed continuous form printers,
>and also has a complete line of printers for office and architectural uses.
>Our stuff costs a whole lot more than I could afford ($30,000 to about
>$1,000,000)  to use if I didn't have access to it. Must of it is highspeed
>computer stuff, up to 1,000 pages a minute, but the office systems group
>(not the division I work for) makes a duplex printer/copier called the 3165
>that has amazing print quality. I'm printing 35lb. bond 100% cotton fiber
>paper on this printer for some book projects. The quality is just
>exceptional. I'd buy one if I had the money. I'm lucky I have access to one.
>I think a lot of Kinko's have them in case you want to check it out for
>different paper tests.
>
>David Goen
>Oce Printing Systems, USA
>
>------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFEBD2.942AB6B0
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>color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D866051912-12072000>O</SPAN>f the generally =
>available=20
>commercial products, only the very newest Epson printers are=20
>archival.&nbsp;<SPAN class=3D866051912-12072000>&nbsp;Their latest is =
>now said to=20
>be archival to several hundred years. The 1270 is said to be good for =
>about 70=20
>years. </SPAN>The others, including the any Epson printer introduced =
>before=20
>their recent technology change<SPAN=20
>class=3D866051912-12072000>&nbsp;s&nbsp;</SPAN><SPAN=20
>class=3D866051912-12072000>&nbsp;</SPAN>, don't even come close: more =
>like 1-2=20
>years before significant fading. I wouldn't use any of the regular =
>inkjets for=20
>anything other than proofing and short-lived documents.<SPAN=20
>class=3D866051912-12072000>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV=
>>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
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>class=3D866051912-12072000></SPAN></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><SPAN class=3D43024105-12072000><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
>size=3D2><FONT=20
>color=3D#0000ff>There are third party inkjet ink sellers that are more =
>reasonably=20
>archival, but usually you must purge your system of OEM inks and use =
>only their=20
>very expensive inks from that point forward<SPAN=20
>class=3D866051912-12072000>&nbsp;.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DI=
>V>
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>class=3D866051912-12072000></SPAN></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><SPAN class=3D43024105-12072000><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
>size=3D2><FONT=20
>color=3D#0000ff>Toner, the stuff of laser printers, is basically carbon =
>and iron=20
>which is fused to the paper. Very good longevity. I don't have any =
>personal=20
>experience with color lasers, so I can't address their archival =
>capabilities. My=20
>company manufactures them, however, so I'll ask the people who =
>know.<SPAN=20
>class=3D866051912-12072000>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV=
>>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
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>class=3D866051912-12072000></SPAN></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
>class=3D43024105-12072000>Just in=20
>case you're curious-this isn't an ad since I don't think anyone on this =
>list is=20
>in the market for our stuff<SPAN =
>class=3D866051912-12072000>&nbsp;;&nbsp;</SPAN>=20
>and I'm a systems engineer, not a sales rep- Oce is the world leader in =
>high=20
>speed continuous form printers, and also has a complete line of printers =
>for=20
>office and architectural uses. Our stuff costs a whole lot more than I =
>could=20
>afford ($30,000 to about $1,000,000)&nbsp;&nbsp;to use if I didn't have =
>access=20
>to it. Must of it is highspeed computer stuff, up to 1,000 pages a =
>minute, but=20
>the office systems group (not the division I work for) makes a duplex=20
>printer/copier called the 3165 that has amazing print quality. I'm =
>printing=20
>35lb. bond 100% cotton fiber paper on this printer for some book =
>projects. The=20
>quality is just exceptional. I'd buy one if I had the money. I'm lucky I =
>have=20
>access to one. I think a lot of Kinko's have them in case you want to =
>check it=20
>out for different paper tests.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
><DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN class=3D43024105-12072000><FONT face=3DArial =
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>size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
><DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN class=3D43024105-12072000><FONT face=3DArial =
>color=3D#0000ff=20
>size=3D2>David Goen</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
><DIV dir=3Dltr><SPAN class=3D43024105-12072000><FONT face=3DArial =
>color=3D#0000ff=20
>size=3D2>Oce Printing Systems, USA</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
>------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BFEBD2.942AB6B0--
>
>             ***********************************************
>            BOOK_ARTS-L: The listserv for all the book arts.
>      For subscription information, the Archive, and other related
>            resources and links go to the Book_Arts-L FAQ at:
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Alan P. Hayes
Meaning and Form: Writing, Editing and Document Design
Pittsfield, Massachusetts

             ***********************************************
            BOOK_ARTS-L: The listserv for all the book arts.
      For subscription information, the Archive, and other related
            resources and links go to the Book_Arts-L FAQ at:
                      <http://www.philobiblon.com>
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