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Re: [BKARTS] bookboard showng through pale bookcloth
- To: BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Subject: Re: [BKARTS] bookboard showng through pale bookcloth
- From: angela harkavy <angelaoharkavy@xxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 09:39:17 -0800
- Message-id: <OE157pfjOCwIGRvunkS00007d41@hotmail.com>
- References: <CPIMSSMTPA67tC7tXjs000968d5@cpimssmtpa67.msn.com>
- Sender: "Book_Arts-L: READ THE FAQ at http://www.philobiblon.com" <BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Hi Nancy good lesson. What I would add is that for cloth I use the PVA
methyl cel mix you mentioned on no. 1.
It delays PVA and let you move the cloth if you need. I use it with paint
small roller from homedepot, whash it and reuse. No lumps. Angela
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy Bloch" <LemonTreePress@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: bookboard showng through pale bookcloth
> In a message dated 1/6/2003 8:25:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> kingmanartmail@xxxxxxxxx writes:
> > <A HREF="mailto:kingmanartmail@xxxxxxxxx">kingmanartmail@xxxxxxxxx</A>
> Ann...what adhesive to use seems to be a huge bugaboo for most people.It
> for me until I learned that you choose an adhesive for the specific
> properties it has, and the properties you want for a given situation.
> are basically 3 or 4 kinds of adhesives and each one has specific
> As you become more experienced, you'll be able to decide for yourself
> to use. So, examining the properties....
> They all do a good job of sticking things to things.
> 1. PVA and other plastic adhesives
> They have less water in them. Therefore they dry faster. Therefore
> they stick things together faster and sometimes you want a little time to
> slide things around so they WON"T stick too fast. Because of the fast
> sticking time of PVA, you don't want to use it when you are adhering a
> area of stuff that may need to get slid or adjusted a bit. The time that
> adhesive can still be jiggled around is called the "open time." But, you
> modify the PVA (and it's "open time" ) by adding something to add the
> properties you want(I.e. more open time)....In this case,I'd add methyl
> cellulose. How much? Maybe half and half. or les methyl cel and more PVA,
> like 3 to 1.
> 2. Methyl cel by itself doesn't have quite the strength that other
> have. It comes in a powder and you mix it with a little water until irt's
> sort of runny like egg whites. The powder keeps forever . I always have a
> little yogurt size container with methyl cel made up. Keep the top on.
> 3. "Paste" not glue. When binders refer to paste they generally mean
> something in the wheat type. Now when we were kids we made flour and water
> paste. It sticks but it's lumpy and the grains of the flour are
> large(compared to some other possibilities) so it's not very satisfactory.
> Rice flour is finer grained than wheat flour so it makes a finer paste.
> Thproduct preferred by most experienced binders is "wheat starch." Since
> the starch that holds things together, this is the best . It is also
> "jin shofu" , theJapanese product. Available through book binding
> like Talas. Despite many people having their own special way of making the
> paste(it comes in powder), you basically make it like you would a sauce to
> eat. No lumps and smooth. Write if you need more specific directions...
> Since paste has a lot of water in it, it dries slowly , tends to ripple
> as water would. But it's the choice for leather and certain paper tasks.
> you want a thick consistancy, use less water when you make it. More water
> you want it thin. But be aware. It spoils quickly, smells bad and gets
> mold on it. Will keep a feww days in refrig. Most binders make it new
> or 3 days, or daily. You can make half PVA and half paste and get a very
> 4. The animal glues. Fish glue and rabbits' foot glue. You don't need this
> until you have quite a bit of experience.
> So there you have a basic course. I hope it wasn't stuff you already
> You can also use 2 different adhesives on the same task...if it suits your
> I don't know what other responses you will get...but these are mine for
> it's worth. I just loved it when I learned these things so I could make my
> own decisions on the spot what to use. HAve choices available. I have my
> little containers of yogurt on my bench at all times and use what is
> appropriate. Oh yes, the paste will keep better if you put a few drops of
> alcohol in the container to help stop the mold. I use 3 or 4 drops(I mean
> "drops") of oil of cloves or oil of eucalyptus or lemon oil. The kind you
> at a fragrance store or a bath shop.
> Hope this helps.
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