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Re: [BKARTS] bookboard showng through pale bookcloth



Hi Ann, as I responded to Nancy I mentioned that what I use for gluing the
cloth to the board is a methyl cel mix with PVA. I have had the best results
with it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Kingman" <kingmanartmail@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: bookboard showng through pale bookcloth

> Thanks, Nancy.  Your information was very informative.  I was actually
> asking Bev about the adhesive that she used on the bookcloth that she made
> herself using the fusible webbing.  I have read that some use the fusible
> web to bond the paper to the cloth, and then use an iron to bond the other
> side of the webbing to the bookboard.
>
> Thanks,
> Ann
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nancy Bloch" <LemonTreePress@xxxxxxx>
> To: <BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 3:01 PM
> Subject: Re: bookboard showng through pale bookcloth
>
>
> > In a message dated 1/6/2003 8:25:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > kingmanartmail@xxxxxxxxx writes:
> >
> >
> > > <A HREF="mailto:kingmanartmail@xxxxxxxxx";>kingmanartmail@xxxxxxxxx</A>
> >
> > Ann...what adhesive to use seems to be a huge bugaboo for most people.It
> was
> > for me until I learned that you choose an adhesive for the specific
> > properties it has, and the properties you want for a given situation.
> There
> > are basically 3 or 4 kinds of adhesives and each one has specific
> properties.
> >  As you become more experienced, you'll be able to decide for yourself
> what
> > to use. So, examining the properties....
> > They all do a good job of sticking things to things.
> >  1. PVA and other plastic adhesives
> >      They have less water in them.  Therefore they dry faster.
Therefore
> > they stick things together faster and sometimes you want a little time
to
> > slide things around so they WON"T stick too fast. Because of the fast
> > sticking time of PVA, you don't want to use it when you are adhering a
> large
> > area of stuff that may need to get slid or adjusted a bit. The time that
> an
> > adhesive can still be jiggled around is called the "open time." But, you
> can
> > modify the PVA (and it's "open time" ) by adding something to add the
> > properties you want(I.e. more open time)....In this case,I'd add methyl
> > cellulose.  How much? Maybe half and half. or les methyl cel and more
PVA,
> > like 3 to 1.
> >
> >  2. Methyl cel by itself doesn't have quite the strength that other
> adhesives
> > have. It comes in a powder and you mix it with a little water until
irt's
> > sort of runny like egg whites. The powder keeps forever . I always have
a
> > little yogurt size container with methyl cel made up.  Keep the top on.
> >
> > 3.  "Paste" not glue.  When binders refer to paste they generally mean
> > something in the wheat type. Now when we were kids we made flour and
water
> > paste. It sticks but it's lumpy and the grains of the flour are
> > large(compared to some other possibilities) so it's not very
satisfactory.
> > Rice flour is finer grained than wheat flour so it makes a finer paste.
> > Thproduct preferred by most experienced binders is "wheat starch." Since
> it's
> > the starch that holds things together, this is the best . It is also
> called
> > "jin shofu" , theJapanese product.  Available through book binding
> catalogues
> > like Talas. Despite many people having their own special way of making
the
> > paste(it comes in powder), you basically make it like you would a sauce
to
> > eat.  No lumps and smooth. Write if you need more specific directions...
> > Since paste has a lot of water in it, it dries slowly , tends to ripple
> paper
> > as water would. But it's the choice for leather and certain paper tasks.
> If
> > you want a thick consistancy, use less water when you make it. More
water
> if
> > you want it thin. But be aware. It spoils quickly, smells bad and gets
> black
> > mold on it. Will keep a feww days in refrig. Most binders make it new
> every 2
> > or 3 days, or daily. You can make half PVA and half paste and get a very
> good
> > adhesive.
> >
> > 4. The animal glues. Fish glue and rabbits' foot glue. You don't need
this
> > until you have quite a bit of experience.
> >
> > So there you have a basic course.  I hope it wasn't stuff you already
> knew!
> > You can also use 2 different adhesives on the same task...if it suits
your
> > purpose.
> >
> > I don't know what other responses you will get...but these are mine for
> what
> > it's worth. I just loved it when I learned these things so I could make
my
> > own decisions on the spot what to use. HAve choices available.  I have
my
> > little containers of yogurt on my bench at all times and use what is
> > appropriate.  Oh yes, the paste will keep better if you put a few drops
of
> > alcohol in the container to help stop the mold.  I use 3 or 4 drops(I
mean
> > "drops") of oil of cloves or oil of eucalyptus or lemon oil. The kind
you
> get
> > at a fragrance store or a bath shop.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> > Nancy
> >

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